[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a hybrid session, we have a number of people in the room and I believe online The structure for this will be that Sara who I'm going to introduce shortly Is gonna talk until she doesn't
[SPEAKER_02]: And then thereafter, there's going to be a five-minute break.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that period people can raise their hands if they want and I will randomize the order of questions with some exceptions for PhD students Then we'll take it from here until three o'clock
[SPEAKER_02]: So with that, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a joint session I should have said between philosophy archaeology and Svedi Garg Yes he's had it right With that special welcome to Sara Uckelman who joins us from Durham University And was going talk about making the erudite accessible Go ahead
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much for the invitation, particularly to Ria who invited me.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have known each other many years not actually originally through academic circles but medieval reenactments which sits nicely in this sort of thing that I want talk about today taking
[SPEAKER_00]: niche research and turning it into something that isn't just for academics sitting in their ivory towers, but can be taken out to the wider world for anybody to enjoy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So its quite a pleasure being able come here through this connection or invitation
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking jointly to a group of philosophers and archaeologists is an interesting combination, particularly because I don't really know much about archeology beyond the sort-of general level layperson idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not going do anything very in depth on the philosophy or something like that
[SPEAKER_00]: But the remit for this lecture was, as we did our inspirational lectures.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to talk to you guys about something that is hopefully of interest across whatever discipline or whatever background he might be in and hopefully inspire him to think about what sort research they do in a slightly different way how can make erudite accessible?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk shorter than some people might talk, because what I'd really love to have at the end is not just your standard Q&A but some good discussions about points that I've raised.
[SPEAKER_00]: Suggestions and thoughts you may had or things we haven't considered so a collective workshopping in different ways for specific areas of research with specialisms
[SPEAKER_00]: So my starting points for this talk, and these are things that I'm not really going to spend a lot of time trying to justify because i expect most everybody in the room is gonna agree with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing is arts & humanities as soft subjects like social sciences or archeology sometimes on humanity's it doesn't have natural place you always find
[SPEAKER_00]: In the UK, which is where I am based but also kind of increasingly across the world particularly in neoliberal capitalist societies these subjects are increasingly under fire and threats.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're being targeted for funding cuts because they don't lead to good job opportunities or anybody can
[SPEAKER_00]: write a novel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nowadays we can just get artificial intelligence to do our literature and arts, playwriting for us so why not have university opportunities but what even is research in philosophy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Things like this."
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's point one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Second, is like we as academics and I'm including all of the master students in PhD students in this room really care about what do?
[SPEAKER_00]: We wouldn't be here if didn't have invested such a large amount our life or think sort thing interested
[SPEAKER_00]: is intrinsically valuable, not just instrumentally-valuable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now some of the things that we do might have instrumental value particularly on like archaeology side where you can go out and provide a survey before new highway gets built to determine if there's anything in it needs preserved.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are definitely practical benefits for
[SPEAKER_00]: metaphysicians sitting in their offices trying to figure out, is this really a table?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does the table okay maybe less likely have practical value but we don't necessarily study our subjects because are interested and capital that it can generate or applications.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do these things because they're intrinsically valuable and important
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the flip sides with this is that what we do as often erudite, abstruse arcane.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to be done especially kind if you've been doing it more specialized and rarefied things are thinking about our and increases gap between other people in terms
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, somebody asks you—you're sitting on a plane.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh what do YOU DO?
[SPEAKER_00]: If I tell them I am a logician the general two responses i often get is they mishear me and think that I'm a magician which...I kind of like!
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me a set axioms and voila give some theorems or they think im in logistics
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'm involved in like getting shipping from one place to another.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody really knows what a logician is outside of logicians, maybe some philosophers...I've got a bunch of archaeologists in the room how many you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: What logic does yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: That's OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say a bit more about that, because the first step i need to do is can't explain it you guys what I'm doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: But this isn't something specific in my area of subject.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody will have sort-of jobbing idea for archaeologists.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go and dig things up right
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet there's a lot more to it than that and the types of analyses, questions material you're working with.
[SPEAKER_00]: The impact on our understanding history culture all these developments All this things come together We really care about what we are doing It is instrumentally and intrinsically valuable
[SPEAKER_00]: what we're doing is really arcane sometimes, and... We need to be able transgress that barrier.
[SPEAKER_00]: To get outside of this very niche small setting-small scale specialisms in order address the threat from broader cultural political decisions So another thing thats kindof background here
[SPEAKER_00]: push back against experts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know to how much this happens in Sweden, but there was definitely something that we saw in England during the pandemic where a lot of people were like why should listen?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well maybe because they knew more about it than us.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you see increasingly in US expertise is not valued anymore so how can take our
[SPEAKER_00]: and turn this into something that can reach the people who are making decisions to put our subjects in fields under threat.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, problem we're facing is how do demonstrate outside of research fears what important valuable accessible should be funded
[SPEAKER_00]: People should be able to study it.
[SPEAKER_00]: People should get jobs in it, all of these interlocking things that feed into the ecosystem
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot that can be said about this, different ways academics try to engage with public engagement or impact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or different routes of taking their work out into the wider world I'm not going give kind-of survey on all these.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most what i'll talk is specific my own experience but just want highlight couple examples things have worked
[SPEAKER_00]: really well for weird niches that end up reaching quite wide audiences, generally through social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got very... We have a variety of different ways to reach outside the academic context through Blue Sky Twitter threads Instagram YouTube TikTok all these sorts venues are
[SPEAKER_00]: places that people go to get information, to get entertainment for other reasons and then kind of come across these things by accident.
[SPEAKER_00]: So three I just wanna highlight if you aren't familiar with this check them out they're good fun the first is so what works very big sheep The Museum Of English Rural Life
[SPEAKER_00]: Eight years and about six days ago, posted this photo as it says the tweet that changed us forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at this absolute unit so The Museum of English Rural Life is this tiny little niche museum in the middle of nowhere That has a very Niche subject matter not much funding And At one point
[SPEAKER_00]: Just over eight years ago, they tweeted this photo of the sheep that had in their archives and it went viral.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now have a huge audience which managed to keep when moved from Twitter to blue sky
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of photos about big sheep, but also lots really interesting conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoever is running their social media... ...really is very good at picking out bits that are going to be interesting in a way which allows you insight not just into the museum and its collections But actually research behind all it
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also helps people to kind of understand, like why do museums matter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they record this sort stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does history matter because this is how we understand the materials that are in these archives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sociology anthropology all of these things That's what provides foundation for fun tweets about big sheep
[SPEAKER_00]: So another example is very niche interests.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't follow surprise deal historian on blue sky, he's great value for money and as the cover photo says it is any excuse to talk about eels .
[SPEAKER_00]: You would be amazed at how much there
[SPEAKER_00]: about the history of eels, about depictions of eels.
[SPEAKER_00]: About eel recipes?
[SPEAKER_00]: About economic records relating to eels?
[SPEAKER_00]: About modern biological studies with eels?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot about it!
[SPEAKER_00]: If you didn't already know this person and followed him how many would ever have thought that he'd be interested in EELS
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd become really, really interested in eels after reading his posts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's another way to get people involved and again to show what academics do it is not just writing boring papers or sometimes interesting ones
[SPEAKER_00]: and audience participation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this was something that happened, I think it was during some of the COVID lockdowns is when these first began but its The Dracula Daily Readathon This from Reddit But also running on Tumblr It's just a bunch people who got together And read Dracula
[SPEAKER_00]: except they did it according to the diary entries that, uh...that book is comprised of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't participate in this first time but i saw kindofthe social infrastructure that grew up aroundit and you've got people who have never read Dracula before
[SPEAKER_00]: they know about the vampire.
[SPEAKER_00]: They basically know this story, but there's really weird digressions on paprika recipes in book that you don't really know about and some people who had never read the didn't realize exactly what happens it when regular diary entries or letters then suddenly starts being a lot more time between
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you might go like a couple of weeks before the next entry emailed to, and then all of sudden start worry about Jonathan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: His host in this castle is maybe not somebody that we should trust."
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge amounts people who probably would never have otherwise read piece 19th century English literature got super invested because it was collective activity
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are three things that can illustrate how you take something rather abstract, rather niche and turn it into something people will actually be interested in.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do
[SPEAKER_00]: is not so engaging as Big Sheep, it's amusing as Eels or has already well known as Dracula.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if people haven't read the book they've at least heard of It If you don't already have a subject matter that
[SPEAKER_00]: for doing this kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: For instance, maybe you don't have something that can post photos very easily we all know how image driven social media is and so big sheep excellent eels excellent vampires yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: What about other subjects?
[SPEAKER_00]: So my own area of research within philosophy is logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we already had a bit hand raised, like already other academics don't necessarily know what logic is
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't just do logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do formal logics, so the stuff with symbols that looks a lot like math.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do modal and dynamic form of logic often in multi-agent setting .I Do Modal & Dynamic Formal Logic In The Middle Ages which is in Latin
[SPEAKER_00]: So by the time that I have narrowed my sphere down to it's like, but there was this really interesting 14th century text.
[SPEAKER_00]: That talking about one particular logical operator
[SPEAKER_00]: I have already lost not only the non-philosophers, but all of my philosophy colleagues who aren't also logicians.
[SPEAKER_00]: Logician weirdly enough find medieval stuff super cool and are always like Sarah's coming to talk this is great!
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying convince philosophers that it was valuable?
[SPEAKER_00]: Bit
[SPEAKER_00]: Weirdly enough, trying to convince the medievalists that this is important really super hard despite fact around about turn of 13th century when universities in Paris and Oxford were being founded.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then over next couple centuries more university across Europe logic was one subject every single undergraduate student had study
[SPEAKER_00]: Which means that anybody who was educated, Who is in a position of political power theological Power ecclesiastical power anything like That would have studied this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always find medievalists A little bit perplexing because it's Like how can you understand the Context?
[SPEAKER_00]: Of The subject that You were studying if don't know Anything about education people are Generating material given
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm already in a context where trying to explain my passion and love, people within my academic sphere is bit of stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent lot time during PhD addressing the question but who cares?
[SPEAKER_00]: And at one point realized that perfectly acceptable answer
[SPEAKER_00]: I find this interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am learning things."
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really care if that's where it stops, It is nice If i can get other people to care but one thing about being academics and you know finding the practice of academia a valuable practice Is that its okay if we do things because We find them like I individually Find these intrinsically valuable And Interesting Because I think That
[SPEAKER_00]: feature of a functioning, well-running society that people have the opportunity to indulge themselves in things they find interesting and valuable.
[SPEAKER_00]: For some this might be sports or music for other it's reading medieval Latin manuscripts on logic so
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, part of that was I don't have to justify myself too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the other hand i should still be able to justify why other people might be interested in this So This is kind Of The context of where a lot of what Is What i'm going To talk about is sitting and i Have A very niche research interest Within my own department within My Own Broader Research Field And
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not one that has pretty pictures or is already well known, it can easily be turned into engaging tweets about interesting animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I take formal logic, whether it is right up here at the top.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just logic in general as my discipline or very niche specialism that have ended and turn this into something accessible to other people?
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah doesn't get much more abstract all dry boring than that At least some peoples perspective not mine
[SPEAKER_00]: So to go, where did my real kind of quest for making what I do more accessible to a broader audience?
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes back March 2020.
[SPEAKER_00]: My university along with almost all the other universities in UK were on strike most of march
[SPEAKER_00]: And on Friday was gonna be our last day of strike, and we were going to back work Monday.
[SPEAKER_00]: The rumors started going along the picket line that Monday... We had one more week left in term but students would go home.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could still come into offices which is good because it's where all materials are
[SPEAKER_00]: This was very short notice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those of us who were religiously observing our strike and we're not checking our email didn't find this out until 9 o'clock Monday morning, And at least in my case, My first lecture was Tuesday afternoon so that meant I had about a day-and-a half to figure out what To do So this is A screenshot from my First online video teaching which i Was In my office it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: A laptop, which sat on a pile of books in the chair and balanced it with my crappy little webcam And then i had whiteboard
[SPEAKER_00]: is glary, I spent a lot of time arranging the whiteboard just perfectly so that it wasn't reflecting and unreadable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then i had my white board markers as like...I have one hour lecture for introductory class an two-hour seminar from advanced classes to generate enough recorded content we can finish this class
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, halfway through recording this video I bumped the whiteboard and it like fell on my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at this point there is no way that can do in any sort of professional way we...I don't have equipment or skills nor knowledge nor time.
[SPEAKER_00]: This just how's going to be?
[SPEAKER_00]: For a lot who are teaching you probably similar stories where yep!
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, that was my last week of teaching.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we had exams and there were summer in everything but as the next academic year came along it became increasingly clear That despite the university's push to do as much in-person teaching is possible
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it was going to have to be done online, and some the on-line teaching is gonna be done asynchronously.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my introductory logic class selected for that so it's going synchronous small group seminars but lectures needed prerecorded at this point I've got a couple months think about what am i doing how do you want more importantly
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm being forced into doing this but also i have some amount of agency.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't particularly like the idea Of pre-recording lectures using my university's lecture capture system that are then sitting on the University servers And can be used in future at any point when am again on strike Like oh we don' care if Sarah is not working We'll just throw out her
[SPEAKER_00]: lectures that she recorded during the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also had at this point, enough of my non-academic friends be like you're really keen on logic but we don't know what it is?
[SPEAKER_00]: You should do something sometime to try and tell us about what it is so maybe this was an opportunity for me to kill two birds with one stone create a record content instead
[SPEAKER_00]: try to reduce the gatekeeping that is involved in, you know... Who gets access on formal logic?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well it's going be people who go university and choose a philosophy degree within this particular subject.
[SPEAKER_00]: The span of sphere I can reach my institution really pretty small generally about 60-70 students year out around 20 thousand why not make more accessible
[SPEAKER_00]: to everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as I said, about six months to kind of think how do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Keeping in mind that have no knowledge or skills video editing producing curating and also didn't particularly want learn these skill if was something wanted would learned many years before other things can with my time
[SPEAKER_00]: Now simultaneously to this, actually a little bit after so I had finished my teaching.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time My kid was about eight and half at that time we discovered Bob Ross now if you're not familiar with him he was an American painter oil painting in the 80s 90's who did these
[SPEAKER_00]: paint along with me teaching TV shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in half an hour, he would show up it with his easel and his paints And He Would walk you through how to do an oil painting of some particular nature scene
[SPEAKER_00]: They are remarkable.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're also immensely soothing, so they were the right thing to watch in early stages of lockdown pandemic but it's a good amount for fractured attention span or kid and about five episodes my kids said I bet we could do that
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we didn't have any oil paints or the right equipment.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's take painting
[SPEAKER_00]: the paints that we do have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we've got acrylic paint and let us use entirely wrong tools but follow along to one of these and see what you can come up with so hers on left mine is right for somebody who has zero artistic ability doesn't know how
[SPEAKER_00]: We ended up doing quite a lot, but I will spare you the full gallery because one of things that was thinking in back my mind is like he's really effective teacher.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact after watching couple these we could sit down and do this
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a media, you know pre-recorded TV shows that are being distributed to an audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no interaction there's not engagement This very much like what doing asynchronous teaching will be in the fall So other things I can learn But of course oil painting and formal logic Not the same
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of Bob Ross's kind of mantras, one the principles that he paints by is at end if you're happy with your painting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have succeeded nothing else matters do you like it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have fun Do think its pretty and That doesn't quite work With formal logic And proofs You might be Happy with Your Proof But that isn't sufficient to make It a proof
[SPEAKER_00]: has to follow certain rules, and be done in a way that counts as having proof.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ross also emphasizes that art comes from exploration and not just slavish copying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in addition to talking his way through how he is putting together, constructing a scene...
[SPEAKER_00]: He was regularly encouraging people maybe you want try this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: This may be what we should look at.
[SPEAKER_00]: While there are
[SPEAKER_00]: a very large exploratory element in formal logic, there are some contexts where the way to learn how do something is stick as close of an example that you have been given.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other final point is that when Ross is creating these landscapes, something he says it's like what's true in my world isn't going to be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: In your role I have trees over here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a broken down barn Over Here but this Is My World You Are Not Painting My World you are painting Your World so can make up The Rules and definitely not case-in logic don't always get decide What Right Wrong Sometimes Can Get Make
[SPEAKER_00]: your definitions at the start and then see what follows.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you're definition are set, You kind of have to stick with them if you going be doing practice logic On my other hand there was a lot similarities that I saw in way he is teaching people how do create art or oil painting And the ways i try teach logic
[SPEAKER_00]: So on with arts, a lot of it came from like by the time that you've watched three or four seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot painting and new realize its same couple techniques over just in different combinations And that is exactly what happens informal logic I will teach you bunch technique then more examples do recombine put things together
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know this is a completely new problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen anything like it before but if i combine these techniques in the way ill be able to solve it
[SPEAKER_00]: When with arts, you might start a plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have things not go to plan and then figure out how recover as the mantra that he is probably most familiar...
[SPEAKER_00]: Most well known for it's there are no mistakes they're only happy accidents so do something feels like mistake?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an opportunity change into integrate in new way
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is also something that happens quite often in doing formal logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start with a plan, it goes badly wrong you figure out why and learn how to recover One of the things that makes Ross's videos very engaging he has produced thousands of these paintings but every single one
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a new treasure that he is experiencing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He cares about what his doing and also the audience, how are they doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Brings them along on all of this This something I have found in my experience teaching logic Is one thing which makes difference
[SPEAKER_00]: between a good logic teacher and poor one is, does the person care about their subject?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does they person care about there students.
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer to these is yes it's going be a good Logic class And if 1 of 2 is no Students are going see this and not like it Also There something valuable in both cases from just learning somebody who convinced that way To make progress Just give it go
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it a go, give it try.
[SPEAKER_00]: See how far you can get see if that'll make you happy so just give it ago come up with some paintings It doesn't matter these are not Rembrandts they're gonna hang in any museum but You spend half an hour doing this and think oh I made something pretty
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the kind of thing I want to get my students feel when they're doing logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sit down, you give it a go and solve a puzzle!
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh look at this...I did something cool!"
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot about how do online teaching from Bob Ross which shaped what we thought
[SPEAKER_00]: my introductory logic content and package it into something that will actually get students to learn, engage in some way reproduce the kind of situation I would like them have a classroom
[SPEAKER_00]: They are probably just sitting locked up in their bedrooms watching videos for all of the classes end and.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I learned was that you don't need any bells and whistles, You Just Need Good Preparation so he has shows black studio canvas brushes paints That's it?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you Don't need to be slick and fancy.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of value in breaking the fourth wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So actually kind engaging with fact that you are doing pre-recorded content for students who were at particular situation, but they're still there!
[SPEAKER_00]: You might not be able to reach them in real time But you can still talk about your student it will come through no matter medium if u r invested
[SPEAKER_00]: ensuring that they get what the need in order to succeed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Students will feel this, whatever way you are producing it them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Slip-ups a part of game and also help your audience care about because want go both directions so there lot how videos out on YouTube which very slick polished everything goes perfectly
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I was very concerned about with making prerecorded content is when I'm teaching formal logic, one of most valuable thing can happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is will be working through some exercise on board and get stuck or make a mistake?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or just stop thinking what am doing lose my path though then have to like okay
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a step back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's unwind things, let go to where we are confident because that is the skill students need learn they know what do you when it goes wrong and if have completely polished slick video presentation everything perfect never opportunity see person doing presenting real so
[SPEAKER_00]: on Bob Ross, mistakes don't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay actually in logic they do but are part of the process so don t gloss over them when it happens acknowledge and fix them repetition works you see same techniques again many different examples
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what students need to learn.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just give it them once and assume that they've absorbed, particularly in a context where you have got no other means of kind-of measuring understanding So...
[SPEAKER_00]: In my advanced logic seminar which I was teaching hybrid but it was synchronous so i had all the student there I decided that I wasn not going teach some content than normally do because knew couldn´t do it through series black boxes
[SPEAKER_00]: because teaching it in person, I relied so much on all of the body language to tell if people understood what was going or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they were never gonna say If They Were Lost but I could tell and so like can't do this through a black box
[SPEAKER_00]: So I needed to be able find a method where even if students didn't get it the first time, and they know that you keep repeating the right things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anybody who's learned their multiplication table knows of value repetition
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I also learned that 30 minutes is a good length, but only if you're actively painting along.
[SPEAKER_00]: If your just kind of listening in the background, thirty minute's too long and you are going to get distracted.
[SPEAKER_00]: The average class lecture is like fifty minutes Who wants sit an listen to 50-minute logic lectures?
[SPEAKER_00]: And think about if this group is representative of even the wider university, that's a very small percentage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So 30 minutes worked when there was kind active engagement and reinforcement along way something shorter than what I had to go for
[SPEAKER_00]: So the guiding principles that I had kind of building on these lessons, going into the creation my video series was no one wants to listen a 50-minute lecture on logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also good because don't want be responsible for generating a 15 minute lecture
[SPEAKER_00]: because I will make too many mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as i said some mistakes are good but you don't want to get 45 minutes into recording something and screw something up and be like now have to start from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody who knows how do video editing can just edit out a mistake or splice things together this isn t me!
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, I settled on the sort of ideal chunk is either like three to five minute length or 5-7 minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Occasionally there are some things which really complicated and culmination a bunch earlier thing we have done might go up 15 minutes but that was my absolute cap
[SPEAKER_00]: And from that very first video where the whiteboard fell on my head as I was recording, it's like...
[SPEAKER_00]: this is not going to be slick and polished.
[SPEAKER_00]: This just gonna awkward, so I'm just goin' lean into that."
[SPEAKER_00]: If make part of what am doing then it covers a whole bunch mistakes or slip-ups.
[SPEAKER_00]: Am promising polish when don't deliver people are disappointed can begin build persona around
[SPEAKER_00]: this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is where DrLogic Awkwardly Does Logic came into being, so the question I ask my students on day one is what is logic?
[SPEAKER_00]: And i've got a textbook which is called The Same Thing
[SPEAKER_00]: freely available on my website, so anybody who wants to go and look at it can.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first 150 videos cover the 20 hours worth of lecture content for my introductory class And I did all that in that 1st year because they needed that material To learn from...and then i was like People like this!
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be usef-I don't need to have this content For advanced classes but might be useful
[SPEAKER_00]: And so videos 151 to 256, I'm about 85% of the way to end kind that bit content.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've now reached a point where maybe doing video like once every three or four months just because got some many other things going on but am still trying go back and do it this is meant what have had for you know
[SPEAKER_00]: an entire year-long lecture course on Introduction to Formal Logic in a Philosophical Context.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had break everything down into... A bit that can be explained, three or five minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not easy!
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was also nearly as hard as what i thought would be and so the first challenge is how do you take
[SPEAKER_00]: a paper that you've written or a book, and break it down into these three minute chunks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And put them all together in way that's... You can then explain to somebody who has no background whatsoever In this subject So one video is about 8-10 videos in It was like here are the set theoretic notation
[SPEAKER_00]: that you need in order to be able understand the symbols I'm using.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another video is, here's The Greek Alphabet where i'm going go through and show how write or say all of these letters because they are also symbol we're gonna use.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now some people if already know the greek alphabet can skip this but thats another benefit
[SPEAKER_00]: It's set up to kind of do it all sequentially, but there might be some bits where I already know that information so I can skip ahead and you don't have then sit through an entire 50 minutes in which half-an hour is stuff you've already known.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my process as very low tech...I record myself, a Zoom meeting with
[SPEAKER_00]: When Zoom first was being used, the whiteboard that they had was wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they upgraded to a new white board and so now every time I go in it's like use the classic one because that would work better but that allows me too kind of write out what i'm doing basically mimic what happens in class because don't you slides when I teach?
[SPEAKER_00]: Write things on the board Because that slows down enough So that I am not giving Too much information too quickly
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also allows for people to both hear what I am saying, see what i'm writing and have the two different media kind of reinforce learning.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we're doing these videos if screw up within like first 30-45 seconds or so then all just stop recording start over again after that usually by them in my flow If make a mistake
[SPEAKER_00]: I just fix it in the context of the video.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens, doesn't happen very often you do want to still seem like a reliable instructor You don't wanna make mistakes every single video but some mistakes are fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I use variants of sign on and off so it is little bit structured say same thing
[SPEAKER_00]: at the beginning, roughly same thing at end to set everybody up for this kind of shared experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know it is DrLogic who's awkwardly doing The Logic its not Professor Uckelman
[SPEAKER_00]: I put on a bit of persona, in fact the extent is lipstick.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing that someone mentioned at very start recording videos
[SPEAKER_00]: having the high contrast would help anybody who was doing any lip reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I thought, oh that's a good idea but putting lipstick on is like now Dr Logic Is Doing Her Thing and makes it easier to lean into awkwardness because sometimes if were actually me maybe wouldn't be able do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: But tied with second thing which way
[SPEAKER_00]: for me to make this work is that I just have no shame.
[SPEAKER_00]: The...I did not realize until after seeing these videos, how often shake my bony fingers at students!
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really creepy seeing it after a while and then there are times when you get all the way up till the end like I had lipstick on my teeth wow that looks professional
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I was doing it awkwardly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all part of the persona.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is...it's essentially to give myself permission just do that Bob Ross mantra like don't wait for perfection go in and be a real person because also reach out these other people who might
[SPEAKER_00]: not really care about logic, but they might be like oh well that looks interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That looks a real person doing the thing it's not AI generated or any of these things maybe want to find out more because I make them interested and then the logic interests them afterwards so
[SPEAKER_00]: I put all of these videos freely up on YouTube and my students watched them during that pandemic year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know in terms like has it worked?
[SPEAKER_00]: Have i succeeded taking really abstract formal logic and turn into something that is accessible to people outside the academic sphere?
[SPEAKER_00]: Outside from what they are teaching?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've got almost 2,500 subscribers which is very small but it's also like enormously huge that there are almost two and a half thousand people who are subscribed to channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: That at this point the sort of logic that i am producing videos on really abstract
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had around 40,000 views and of course not everybody is watching the entire video but that's still quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I have found the most amazing is there has been genuine interaction in videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Occasionally, because i was trying to recreate experience of being in my classroom ,I will turn and be like here's an example leaving these problems for you as homework assignments if want post your answer chat happy take a look at them
[SPEAKER_00]: And people actually do.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people out there who will do logic homework assignments for a class that they're not taking, but more than I've had people asking me quite
[SPEAKER_00]: quite complex philosophical questions or wondering about could this have been done in another way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get students from all over the world who are, you know... Who've stumbled upon my videos while they're taking their own logic classes and there working through confusions it's like do we have these right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that-I never expected that would be kind of genuine actual academic
[SPEAKER_00]: back and forth exchange where people ask questions because they know that will get answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stranger recognition is one of the weirder things has happened during kind if year when I was recording a couple videos every days, walking home from school with my kid someone came up to me are you Dr logic?
[SPEAKER_00]: My roommate is one of your students and she makes me watch all of her videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have gone to conferences in like Brazil, Argentina or Latvia And people come up to me saying they've watched my video They're super useful and helpful Now those are other philosophers but it means that It has spread beyond just my own student sphere
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I have had to kind of adapt with in teaching nowadays is at this point,
[SPEAKER_00]: The videos covering my Fundamentals of Logics class have been out in the world for like five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: This means that a vast majority students taking this classes come having already watched all or most, and so they know who DrLogic is!
[SPEAKER_00]: They know what their classroom will be
[SPEAKER_00]: have a familiarity with me, which is great because I don't need to build that rapport or it's easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also weird because they're like hi DrLogic and Hugo?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ben?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, because you keep moving what seats your sitting in and i'm really bad with faces.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that has been a unexpected side effect of people come into my class already knowing not just some the content but they know how interact ,what expect from them That can ask these questions that im open to this sorts things And that ive found is very valuable
[SPEAKER_00]: The broader question of how many people outside the academic setting am I reaching with these videos?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be very hard, you'd need somebody who knows to study Google Analytics and everything
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've certainly gotten my subject area beyond my classroom and beyond particular discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at least, this point...I'm happy with that!
[SPEAKER_00]: I can continue to try build further and see how else what else could i do?
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as wrapped up the last bit of content already got plans for next thing it's not gonna be a protracted kind class is just going
[SPEAKER_00]: interesting things that Sarah has been thinking about while reading Logic papers, combined with...
[SPEAKER_00]: So my kid is now a teenager.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's super into K-pop There are a lot of weirdly interesting logical and philosophical things that come up in k pop songs And so I'm going to do series videos like teaching logic through KPOP See if those can actually get me the broader accessibility
[SPEAKER_00]: Once I started thinking in this way, I started seeing all of these things where I'm like...I could say something about logic hanging on that hook.
[SPEAKER_00]: So doing this kind taught me to think my research and specialism in a different ways, what is the 3-5 minute chunk so somebody who doesn't know anything but gets them sense for it?
[SPEAKER_00]: in all of this, what's the key to my success?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if there is one thing that people tell me after they've watched videos or taken my class it's wow Sarah you really love logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the single coolest thing that you can do, watch my videos to find out why!
[SPEAKER_00]: But...I try and make sure that love & passion comes through in every single video that i record Sometimes we are doing the dullest of definitions
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I know this is dull and very abstract.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't make sense but just bear with me because like three videos from now we're going to get to prove the coolest lemma that's my favorite Lemma ever!
[SPEAKER_00]: You gotta have a definition first."
[SPEAKER_00]: So something happens sometimes people watch my video not cause they care about logic But they find fascinating watching somebody who cares so much
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like this is very much in kind of the surprise deal historian mode, where it's you may not care that about eels.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's dude on the internet who is fascinated by them and THAT IS fascinating!
[SPEAKER_00]: So... You might NOT be able to convince everybody your particular niche area is something they should go off and study.
[SPEAKER_00]: BUT YOU CAN AT LEAST CONVINCE THEM YOU CARE ABOUT IT AND THAT SOMETIMES IS ENOUGH
[SPEAKER_00]: To get them to be like, oh maybe I'll watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I will learn a little bit more So...I did promise to say something about
[SPEAKER_00]: What can you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking to the mixed audience of philosophers, archeologists.
[SPEAKER_00]: If anything that I've talked about has kind of inspired you to be like oh well maybe could this with some my research and it's not gonna an entire class or a paper you read recently
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the bar for picking content is, do you find it interesting?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do probably somebody else does too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if not...
[SPEAKER_00]: The process of actually articulating to yourself what are these three-to five minute interesting bits that can kind chunk paper into That's valuable for yourself even no one else watches outcome
[SPEAKER_00]: But what can you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Find the right media.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as I said, there's things like Blue Sky Twitter threads... so something i did on twitter a couple of years ago-I was asked to review book it's The History Of Philosophy Without Any Gaps the volume on medieval philosophy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is this 400 page long book and so I started reading it And that was over 300 tweets by the time I was done with it!
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just kind of went through it, and shared my thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shared a quote relayed objections or confusions are things that was thinking up this particular author really likes giraffes so he uses giraffe in his examples So i kept running Giraffe Count throughout the thread and...
[SPEAKER_00]: ...I was surprised at how many people philosophers and non-philosophers engaged with that That was a you know Really
[SPEAKER_00]: widely read, shared and responded to thread where I'm reviewing a book on medieval philosophy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then there's video formats like YouTube or TikTok...I keep thinking I should do it but also think that I am just too old for TikTok?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't quite get how it works!
[SPEAKER_00]: One of these things will be the right thing, and it'll depend on what your subject is.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many photos you're able to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are capabilities or interests but also your age You know what kind media you gonna comfortable working with Within that medium figure out what's optimal size length format Are we going Instagram post where got a flashy picture then little bit description Or 3-5 minute YouTube videos whatever
[SPEAKER_00]: builds yourself a persona, because it allows you to do things that you might not otherwise do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And It doesn't have to be very complex ones so yeah Dr logic puts on her lipstick and the origin story for The Name is after I got my PhD A friend then asked me ah So what's your superpower?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like Doesn't everybody get a super power along with their degree i'm Like Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I can prove theorems from nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my superpower."
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she was like, your superhero name is DrLogic So that's literally where they came from Keep it low-tech You do not need the bells and whistles It doesn't have to be flashy or polished In fact Not doing that makes things better Because... ...that keeps you human Makes you real And make easier for you reach out To other people For them feel
[SPEAKER_00]: You think they are real.
[SPEAKER_00]: So remember that you're talking to a real audience and give them homework assignments, tell him he'll grade then maybe get gold star if do good job ask questions remind of things it's difficult at first kind talk the computer as just people but
[SPEAKER_00]: You do it a bit, and then becomes very easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just start chatting to your computer as recording yourself and forget how weird that really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pick something that you care about because I think the red thread goes through any sort of successful
[SPEAKER_00]: dissemination of relatively erudite, weird niche research to a wider audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be because the person doing it genuinely thinks this stuff is interesting and Aristotle says that all humans by their nature desire to know not anything in particular we just like knowing stuff
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can present your stuff as like this is interesting, then maybe they'll be like oh that's stuff I want to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So...I hope
[SPEAKER_00]: Given an example that shows it is possible to make the erudite accessible, whether teaching people how do oil painting.
[SPEAKER_00]: This a castle in St Andrews actually acrylic not oils
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, I did this on the basis of what Bob Ross taught me over TV episodes recorded decades ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's my channel if you scan QR code that will get to it because its easier than sharing a link and in remaining time we have actually quite a bit
[SPEAKER_00]: I would really love to kind of hear from people about, well questions that you have anything but examples where-that you are familiar with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where people have managed take something niche and specialized And get it out there more widely Thoughts about what You might Have as a researcher As an academic Of your own What media
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were to be challenged, what would it look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the potential barriers that might face because among other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a lot of fun!
[SPEAKER_00]: I get around and call myself YouTube celebrity but when we flew into Stockholm yesterday he said why Sweden
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what's it on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Making the Erudite Accessible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized as said this that is a fairly inaccessable title and so like going to talk about my YouTube series on formal logic he kind of went huh!
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah thank you very much and look forward our discussion .
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, we take a five-minute break and will resume at 23 past.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the meantime those in the room feel free to raise hands and I'll make notes of who has raised their hand
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I logged on online, but I'm lagged.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those of you who are online can write a comment or question in the chat and we will read it when the turn comes to all right?
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's start.
[SPEAKER_02]: I shall walk with this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sofia first go ahead
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I want to ask you about this.
[SPEAKER_06]: You talked about doing the logic of K-pop or something and...
[SPEAKER_06]: This is a popular thing there's these entire series of Blackwell books like The Philosophy Of This And That And The Other Thing connects philosophy with pop culture but i was thinking
[SPEAKER_06]: Is there a risk of making the connections too tenuous and strange just because you want to connect it something popular?
[SPEAKER_06]: Because I was thinking, so I have published a piece for instance on our website for sci-fi or fantasy writers.
[SPEAKER_06]: On basically deontology superheroes And i think that's an normal connection because these are stories where characters
[SPEAKER_06]: explicitly talk about what's morally right and wrong, discuss their own moral principles since it is very easy to connect that with the moral philosophy.
[SPEAKER_06]: Some of these discussions are better than others but you can learn something from them too
[SPEAKER_06]: But then I was asked if i wanted to give a zoom lecture for an American university on like Taylor Swift and the philosophy of psychiatry because she has a song apparently where she sings that, She's A Mad Woman or something.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm like...I don't even know taylor swift
[SPEAKER_06]: And they were like, look at the lyrics.
[SPEAKER_06]: I looked at the lyrics and it's a lot of repetition.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like oh you say I'm mad?
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm mad!
[SPEAKER_06]: Since there is this word Mad in it... Of course i could make some sort connection to my work but that would just be silly.
[SPEAKER_06]: Do have any thoughts on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: learning logic through K-pop kind of idea that I have in mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is actually intended to be silly because, so the first one there's a group who has this song with the word paradox and it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: but that's not what a paradox is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was like, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be one and another...
[SPEAKER_00]: There were actually very interesting— It wasn't from the song —it was form of these extra kind-of videos that groups film for parasocial reasons where they're doing some wordplay on members' names Where then… One character in his name Is actually the same as I think either AND or OR
[SPEAKER_00]: And it ended up in this very interesting use versus mention confusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, the ideas that I have are things when watching these videos or listening to songs with my kid and something comes up an elbow her like you're so embarrassing mom!
[SPEAKER_00]: So might end being something where whole point is embarrass child through explaining work
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is a very different... That's kind of going into it, not trying to make it serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the case that you are like the science fiction and superheroes one, that totally makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of interesting philosophical things to say about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also would probably have the same feelings on Taylor Swift thing The only connection
[SPEAKER_00]: the word and there isn't anything deeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, There are probably other ways that you could talk about The Philosophy of Psychiatry in The Philosophy Of Madness That didn't need to have that popular song as a hook but...
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah I think that's eh..
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something-there is space for the whole Here Are These Pop Culture Hooks Take Something and be like
[SPEAKER_00]: hey, did you know philosophical connection?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to tell about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh mom!
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Andy, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what-I am not really expecting me have a good answer here or for anyone's having an answer but kind of interested in how this fits into the broader context that introduced there
[SPEAKER_07]: So I think making philosophy accessible is great.
[SPEAKER_07]: It should be accessible to everyone because it's really awesome and people shouldn't have to like, Be in a position to go to university And things like this To learn about philosophy and things Like that But the context In which you introduced This was thinking About The various pressures That higher education Institutions are under
[SPEAKER_07]: um especially funding pressures and stuff like this so i'm wondering okay, yes make philosophy accessible is great tips on how to do distance delivery but How would we leverage this into money for universities?
[SPEAKER_07]: And student numbers are not even just student number.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I mean Student Numbers might be such an issue
[SPEAKER_07]: Because people do find philosophy interesting.
[SPEAKER_07]: They want to take philosophy courses, but policymakers... Why should they give those who study philosophy the opportunity?
[SPEAKER_07]: How can we leverage making philosophy accessible into money?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have good answers for that otherwise The UK higher education funding system would look much different from how it currently does
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people take my class because I am a known figure in my university.
[SPEAKER_00]: Partly through people who've taken classes before and shared the videos, so it's partly from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Partly because...
[SPEAKER_00]: ...I also answer questions In The University Student Facebook group And they see me as this font-of all knowledge Because i can find things on SharePoint But
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally have people who take my class because of my status in the institution, Who might otherwise never considered doing formal logic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so...I get them into classroom and teach something that i find interesting They may not quite get it but they probably get why what im doing is valuable
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are the people, because I teach in a quite prestigious UK institution.
[SPEAKER_00]: I teach a lot of philosophy politics and economics students These Are The People Who Are Going To Go On to Get Degrees In or to get jobs in politics infant takes in consultancies who are going be ones can do that kind leveraging?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's... That is very long
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, running way to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that the more diversity of students into our classrooms...
[SPEAKER_00]: The more we've got these people who can then take this message back out and be like actually I really benefited from having an opportunity to have a logic class wouldn't it great if other people did?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's kind of what we hope will always happen with all education.
[SPEAKER_00]: That people come in and something changes... ...and they'll be like,"I want other to have these opportunities."
[SPEAKER_00]: We know it doesn't really happens like this but… …something can happen through those kinds channels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah!
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish i had a better answer.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was better than nothing though.
[SPEAKER_02]: More comments or questions?
[SPEAKER_02]: There are some comments online, but it's not clear to me that they're... there may be no question for Sara.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you can make them explicit if you want something addressed in the auditorium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Other comments and questions from the room or online?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be very interested to hear from the archaeologists.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys did kind of sort yourselves out, but there are some philosophers over here and some archeologist's over her so i'd love to know what you think that you could do three or five minutes on why this is cool in some format?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you tell your grandma when she asks what you're studying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, Do You All Do Boring Things?"
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh wait we need to get the sorry about that yes...
[SPEAKER_00]: The pressure of speaking into
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did a class on lithics last year with...
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's stones right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes stone tools sorry With one of the foremost experts in Australia and then its broken down into how Australia looks at this It is very different from Europe But i had no idea what they were talking most time And This Is Very Nationology couldn't learn anywhere else so but it's extremely useful for
[SPEAKER_04]: anyone working in Australia and any indigenous people who may not have this knowledge anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would like to do a little YouTube video say, This is what they're talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: This how you can look at these stone tools and identify... Yeah so doing sort of translating What other people are doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Science communication right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be super interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like stones."
[SPEAKER_00]: See, that's another way if you think about very niche what-you're doing might have all of these complicated words and everything but can zoom out to a big picture?
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got any excuse talk eels
[SPEAKER_00]: I like stones.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if i came across a YouTube channel that said something like that...
[SPEAKER_00]: ...I'd be like oh yeah!
[SPEAKER_00]: I like them too!
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he also talk about rocks?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the difference?!
[SPEAKER_00]: That would cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is sort of thing other people might say Oh yea do you know this guy?
[SPEAKER_00]: He likes rock or stone whatever it is Is there any different?
[SPEAKER_00]: Idk go watch his chanel
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we...
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that was very interesting and I was just wondering so you mentioned one other example?
[SPEAKER_03]: Peter Adamson with history of philosophy without any gaps And have you looked at kind of other Philosophy YouTube channels or people doing this popular style of philosophy That would recommend as good examples
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't consume information in this media myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: so i dont really go out and watch them but i know that there are some out there uh...so..I think it's philosophy tube is one a lot of people that I know rate very highly and recommend
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure that there are other ones out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably a lot but one of the things about these sorts media is
[SPEAKER_00]: there's never any harm in having somebody else out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are loads of channels where you can go and get introductory logic content, but that is great because the algorithm will serve up to someone or catch their interest
[SPEAKER_00]: is understandable or accessible to somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's great that there are some really good ones out, but we should also be like that impetus do more rather than ah yes go watch this one instead.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right James?
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you just a sort of comment on your thing about keeping these things low tech I mean obviously now have two cameras and microphone
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there have been plenty of studies done on video production that kind show the video quality really doesn't matter so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: So your idea like not editing and it's just a webcam is fine but audio quality really matters And It kinda turns people off very quickly if the audio isn' tvery good Yeah So A Just comment maybe that needs clarifying On that i will say That did get those comments Maybe first two or three videos
[SPEAKER_00]: So I went to my institution and it was like, if you want me to do online teaching.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got get a podcast quality microphone
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, yes they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've used that and no one has ever commented on the sound quality again."
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very good point!
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah so that was going to be the question then?
[SPEAKER_05]: Have you found out how do solve that but yeah there is your answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: At that time my institution was shelling-out money for online teaching...
[SPEAKER_00]: ...I suspect some institutions may still have budgets or your university might even have media team
[SPEAKER_00]: who might have facilities that you may be able to book or borrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully I'm not promising things, but... Outlab has a sound studio we can use!
[SPEAKER_00]: So there ya go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright Sophia?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, thanks.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was thinking do you think there is such a thing as being too dependent on personal enthusiasm?
[SPEAKER_06]: So this example isn't really from social media or anything pop culture connected but they are so enthusiastic about their
[SPEAKER_06]: niche, weird philosophy theory about a certain philosophy topic that when I hear them talk.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of like yeah this is interesting but then as soon they are not personally present and radiating the enthusiasm if i read something on them Im'like no!
[SPEAKER_06]: This actually hella boring and irrelevant to everything else that goes in these topics
[SPEAKER_06]: And also, they're not doing all that well career-wise maybe because several people have the same reaction than I do.
[SPEAKER_06]: That got me thinking how far can sheer enthusiasm take you?
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe there is this kind of limit if your topic is too intrinsically boring .
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah!
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh...that's a very fair comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who might find watching my videos an interesting way to pass time
[SPEAKER_00]: but they go off and then try to actually read a Logic paper, or even my logic textbook.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are like oh my god this is dull!
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I mean of course not...Logic is fascinating But i could totally imagine that Logic would be the sort-of thing where people will go up there and say I can't make heads or tails
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there are going to be subjects that will be inaccessible for some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best we can do in any kind of context is try and make what were doing as accessible to the widest number of people...
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no amount of enthusiasm
[SPEAKER_00]: that you could have to get me who wants read more about whatever subject your doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not anybody here in this room, I can tell ya that but yeah there are definitely limits it's a good way kind of like getting people in but might not necessarily them the next step There does need some sort transition and again thats kinda hard part at least if we open gate
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the next step is to think about, how do we actually get people through it?
[SPEAKER_02]: James.
[SPEAKER_05]: This just sort of a broader question because you began by talking like anti-intellectualism on the rise in UK and having come from there I feel that
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think there should be like a concerted effort to sort of address that directly in any these things?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or do you more it's, if we're present and show that this thing are interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And actually know what were talking about in various areas then all sorts push back against them I thinking kind the...
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff i'm doing for public audience More broadly no because That could potentially really put people off
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that I have started doing more and explicitly in my actual teaching, where people find studying logic with me really interesting because on the one hand it is very much like mathematics.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got all of these definitions everything follows from
[SPEAKER_00]: it's very objective, black and white.
[SPEAKER_00]: You either have a proof or you don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is true of false in all this but that once got your definitions getting the definition making choices about what kind language are going to use?
[SPEAKER_00]: What salient features trying identify
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the bits of an argument that you're trying to emphasize or ignore?
[SPEAKER_00]: All these decisions, there isn't necessarily a clear right and wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell my students if they decide in this way will have consequences
[SPEAKER_00]: These are not just consequences about what does your formal proof look like, but they're our consequence is whose voice we listening to in a discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: what are the salient features that we're highlighting, and who gets included as a result of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing at end up talking about is the relationship between logic or being logical
[SPEAKER_00]: and gendered stereotypes, the ways in which for instance The Manosphere misogyny will use
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not being reasonable, you are too emotional as a systematic way of shutting down conversations and excluding an entire gender from the conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about this very explicitly in my class because what I tell them is that when they see people using reason rationality logical
[SPEAKER_00]: in this sort of way, to shut down conversations and exclude people that I want them feel empowered step into say you can't do like my logic teacher told me tell you cannot weaponize her special subject cut out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's important we have these explicit conversation with students
[SPEAKER_00]: that the decisions they make have these impacts and this isn't just a game.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not abstract formal logic you are going to do your derivations, proofs arguments then go away live rest of life No!
[SPEAKER_00]: The entire process what goes on in doing Formal Logic
[SPEAKER_00]: exactly the process that goes on in our daily lives when we are making decisions about who to listen and why.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you for an awesome talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made me really interested in formal logic actually but I was wondering about like some fields where there might be something which may be very relevant to people Like political and moral philosophy But the anti-intellectual challenge then is maybe that People are inclined to think Oh yes of course Moral facts do not exist Of course we have free will And so on it might be difficult To draw people when they have
[SPEAKER_01]: When they think that the subject is very straightforward, I don't think people have this kind of use on formal logic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course it's not a valid deduction!
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think THAT challenge can be handled?
[SPEAKER_00]: It IS true if people come to Formal Logic with any preconceptions
[SPEAKER_00]: it's along the lines of this is dull and boring, rather than these arguments are valid or invalid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you've got a subject matter where people do come with presuppositions... To some extent
[SPEAKER_00]: To some extent, the people who already have presuppositions are not necessarily that you need to reach because they're all ready kind of thinking about and articulating in asking these questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then come into a position so maybe like never really thought about it before or may be I've been kinda thinkin' abut but don't know how an answer because there's no vocabulary for free will versus determinism
[SPEAKER_00]: or rules-based ethical theories versus virtue, utilitarianism verses whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are going to be lots of people out there like that and maybe on the archeology geology side you're starting with what's a rock?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when you think about it, I mean that's a bad example because I took geology 105.
[SPEAKER_00]: A rock is naturally occurring inorganic substance with fixed chemical content and definite crystalline structure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our TA made us memorize this!
[SPEAKER_00]: It worked but before even taking the class it never occurred to me that rocks would be something we could define And i was a philosopher
[SPEAKER_00]: And I should be thinking about these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly we need to get like one philosopher and one archeologist and the archaeologists can be talking about things and their philosophy could me like wow!
[SPEAKER_00]: Never would have... How do you define that?
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of concept is behind that?"
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some really cool conversations that you guys could have
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: If there aren't more comments or questions we'll wrap it up there and thanks Sarah very much!
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you lots of fun